The right and the wrong in seeker sensitivity training…
January 9th, 2007
If you would like to eavesdrop (or, listen from under the eaves) on a conversation filled with a mixture of indignation and rational thought regarding the new “look” of the prayer room, you can listen in here:
http://www.ihop.org/Forums/Messages.aspx?ThreadID=1000002396#new
I was planning on talking a bit more about the changes to the prayer room (and the reaction of many within and without). I understand the issues that drive discontent with both the changes themselves and change in general. When one has virtually no input into a change that happens seemingly overnight, it can be jarring and slightly disruptive. Disillusionment is a natural reaction when the logic behind a change is not evidently clear or trusted. This is particularly true, of course, when television or any form of mass media is involved. How much did this drive the change? (Lots) How legitimate is it that mass media would influence changes at IHOP? (Very) Were the changes necessary even without the mass media influence? (Absolutely)
There are many issues, positive and negative, that can be addressed at the outset of what is the beginning of the beginning of many changes that are in store for IHOP-KC. I, for one, sense multiple posts coming on here. You, for two, sense another magnum opus of verbosity surpassing anything ever attempted in blogdom. I think that we’re both right on this one.
The most volatile issue surrounding the new look of the prayer room is the actual look itself, which has a fairly “seeker-sensitive” touch. This makes sense, as the main consultant helping us make these changes was the main platform design consultant for Willow Creek ministries. With that said, let’s hit the real underlying issue head on, right now:
The thought of embracing anything that remotely resembles “seeker-sensitive” makes some who are here (and some who love IHOP-KC from afar) react strongly. Very, very strongly. And by “strongly”, of course, I don’t mean, “YES! I am so in love with SEEKERS! It’s about TIME someone started being sensitive around here!” What I mean is something slightly resembling revulsion at worst and abject horror at best. Let’s face it, many come to IHOP-KC (or are attracted to the messages preached here) because they seem to represent a stark departure from those expressions of Christendom that seem to enable (lo, encourage) lukewarm living and frown on anything resembling such concepts as “fasting” or “martyrdom”. Point taken.
But let’s look at the seedy underbelly called “the flip side”: a painful journey into some of the real issues that drive our religious opinions and sensibilities. The short version of that sentence is called “pride”, and it secretly fuels the hearts of men and women who really, really like their new church cultures and really despise the “illegitimate” expressions they were lucky to come out of. This is mostly because they like the self-congratulating wisdom of having the discernment to choose those cultural expressions of Christianity in the first place, subsequently rejecting the “false”. It’s with a sigh of relief that they come limping in to what they feel is the one bastion of sanity in a sea of apostasy. Mix this with much idealism without much scriptural foundation, mix in a dash of scriptural language, and you have a very radical sounding polemic that rages against the rest of the church indiscriminately. Yet it is only a matter of time before the same issues that fueled their exodus from the last stop begin to creep in and influence the way that they feel about their current spiritual family.
That last paragraph might seem a bit too intense, so it’s important that I add this little qualification: I think that most believers have those subtle thought processes underneath the surface but won’t be defined by them. When confronted with biblical thinking, most will shift their thinking rather quickly and embrace God’s design and order in regards to His Bride. It is possible to speak boldly against the illegitimate expressions and practices of the western church without subtly or unintentionally rejecting the legitimate ones. It simply comes down to many not having a paradigm of true team ministry in its fullest expression. Many have never truly considered either one of two realities:
1. Denominations are actually a good idea and God-ordained.
2. Therefore, there are many, many legitimate streams and expressions within the body of Christ that strengthen and bless the whole body.
There will never be (and can never be) one expression of Christianity (through one church or movement) that will become the expression of Christianity. The movement you joined must embrace the other legitimate moves of God that constitute the corporate expression of “church” within a city, nation, and entire body of Christ throughout the earth. The Israel that you were grafted into was, by necessity, portioned into tribes, or family units. Each tribe had strengths and weaknesses, and each brought to the whole unique aspects of personality that reflected what Jacob prophesied over his sons in Gen. 49. These tribal and ethnic distinctions do not disappear after we die, as depicted in Rev. 7:9. Paul explains this concept in the more well-known 1 Cor. 12 passage, but he also touches on it regarding a “post-Second Coming” reality in Eph. 4:7-16.
In that passage Paul demonstrates the profound unity of the faith that the body of Christ will experience, yet this will happen as we are “joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share…” (Eph. 4:16) This is what the body of Christ will more fully and effectively express in the coming days - the divine and Godly order of the kingdom that honors what He ordains, establishes, and sets into place for His sovereign purposes. This order will emerge according to the grace given to men, women, churches, ministries, and cities to walk out their calling and mandate in a manner that truly serves the whole body of Christ in a city and in a nation, as well as the generation in which we live.
What am I saying is this: there is great validity for the seeker-sensitive ministries of the body of Christ. For those ministries and leaders who have been truly called to walk that out, they carry what I would consider a major portion of the calling of the evangelist within the apostolic team of a city, nation, and generation (depending on the God-ordained sphere of influence). It is not inherently righteous to express the gospel less-than-excellently. It is not inherently godly to make the building that unbelievers and new believers gather in ugly, drab, and dull. Stewarding that which God entrusted to you with excellence is a good thing. Making a building (or a broadcast) welcoming and inviting is wisdom that embraces the ministry of hospitality. Making a platform beautiful in a manner that can be helpful to facilitate prayer and worship is better than allowing distractions and detractions that are not helpful, nor do they serve the people.
I’ll say this in even more offensive terms: slickly packaged presentations of the gospel that are strategic and thought-through are more helpful than sloppy, undisciplined, stream-of-consciousness presentations of the gospel. The idealist would appeal here to a gospel presentation filled with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power - and rightly so! But what is your plan in the meantime to reach people for the gospel? I want to give myself to both dimensions, forsaking neither excellence nor contending for the fullness of Christ (Eph. 4:13). Thus the weakness of my lack and the reality of my spiritual poverty both demand that I do the best I can with what I have while simultaneously asking God for more. That, in my opinion, is an aspect of sound stewardship.
As I said earlier, there is always a “flip-side”. There are clearly excesses and errors in approach that at times is far more seeker-devoted or seeker-focused than seeker-sensitive. There is at times a settling for excellent methodology that diminishes the urgency for the “more” of God and the need for the fullness of His heart to be expressed. There is also a subtle dialing-down of the message of the gospel in the name of excellence - to make the message more palatable. I have no interest in that - I want to present truth (and a hard message when needed) with excellence, at no time compromising on the message for the sake of numbers or resource. You want the same things, I am sure.
So let’s not throw out, as they say, the baby with the bath water. Let’s not dismiss every expression of seeker-sensitivity assuming that there is a homogenous and intrinsic error associated with the whole movement. I want to find and honor the sincere that are walking out their calling with excellence - and I want to partner with them in the manner in which IHOP-KC plays our part on the team. I want to pray for them. I want to fight for them. And, surprisingly to some, I want to learn from them. I think that I’m endeavoring to walk out true humility in doing so - but a critical part of humility is to trust the leadership of the Lord to straighten me out when I weakly embrace parts of the other “tribe” that aren’t helpful in either glorifying God or advancing His purposes and kingdom.
Let the discussion begin.
David
Entry Filed under: life at ihop-kc, life in the spirit, prayer movement
31 Comments Add your own
1. Brent Steeno | January 9th, 2007 at 10:50 am
Only Dave Sliker while talking about the stage at IHOP bring an end time aspect to it.
Well Done.
On a serious note, I agree with you Dave. We are the body of Christ and have to learn to see ourselves as that.
I especially liked your point on hospitality. I got to thinking, did the apostles ever make the home they were meeting it look a little better? Maybe more inviting to those who would come? Or maybe they lit a candle or too to set the atmosphere.
2. Stephanie | January 9th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
All fist-shaking aside, I really miss your class.
I immensely enjoy your usage of words like preponderance and phrases like abject horror.
That being said, I genuinely appreciate your perspective . . . you absolutely pinpointed our problem in over-reacting to the “seeker sensitive” feel to the “new” prayer room. Thanks for writing, and keep calling us out
3. ron downing | January 9th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
well i love this thread. i just took a look at it and i am so intreagued by it all. it is easy to look at the external changes and make ‘value’ judgments by them. but i am once again brought solice by the fact that we have HUNGRY men and women crying out that the Lord of glory would open our eyes to Himself, fill us with the knowledge of His will, and give us supernatural strength to truly love. i think if we continue in this type of stuff that he will work the rest of all that out, and correct us if we need be…
about the ’seeker-sensitive’ look of ihop. i think seeker sensitve has become almost a four letter word (truly fourteen…) in many christian circles. i agree with you dave that we cannot throw out the truth of the concept of ’seeker-sensitivity’ in our ministries. to many seeker-sensitive has come to equate to cheap grace teaching and the like, which is of course wrong and not the true heart of what being sensitive to a seeker would be.
i would just like to have some who are outspoken against seeker-senstive (as i would have been a few years ago) to sit down for five minutes with a man like hal lindhardt and see how views change.
ron
4. Mark Murphree | January 9th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
Pointed and accurate. That next-to-the-last paragraph hit the nail on the head - when you become concerned about removing obstacles between people and Christianity, you eventually realize that the greatest obstacle is Christ Himself. Some seeker-sensitive groups have watered down the gospel trying to make it more “palatable.” If you have an ugly prayer room, there’s not much fear that you’ll water down the message of martyrdom and fasting - but there’s no particular reason a “seeker-sensitive” aesthetic *has* to lead to watering down the gospel.
And whenever I have a student start babbling incoherently about the evils of denominations, I just say, “Denominations are what we have so we don’t wind up arguing about infant baptism EVERY SINGLE SUNDAY.”
Mark
5. David | January 9th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Mark, that last sentence was brilliant. I am stealing it for sure - it sums up my whole point with precision. My guess is that we imagined “unity” would equal “sameness” forgetting that God truly loves our distinctions and diversity.
To qualify a bit, I think that in the last of the last days there will be a profound unity in terms of doctrine (eschatology in particular) and lifestyle throughout the body of Christ while maintaining godly cultural diversities of gifting and personality.
David
6. David | January 9th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Did I use the word preponderance? I had no idea.
The challenge now is to actually incorporate those words and phrases into every day conversation in an unforced way. Especially “abject horror”. If I can pull that off, it’s a good day.
David
7. Josh Hawkins | January 9th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
I really haven’t stepped in any of the conversations as of yet about the appearance change of IHOP. But my philosophy is that if more people pray and love Jesus wholeheartedly, I am all for it. And I know the leadership feels the same way.
Ron, I love what you said - having a bunch of truly hungry people constantly crying out leaves the Lord to work it all out and correct us if necessary.
Even this little feather-rustling for many just shows the wisdom of prayer… So weak, yet so perfect!
Josh
8. Amanda | January 9th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
I’ve been waiting for this post ever since you first mentioned addressing the “theology of ugliness.” Really appreciate what you have to say…
9. joyska | January 9th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
Hey Dave,
This has been a great entry to read and respond to. I have loved the changes in the prayer room and it’s something that has caused me to engage even more.
It’s not about the room, or the set up, it’s (for me) about the bigger picture. I keep thinking of Misty’s song, “I don’t want to be offended when it’s all coming down” and the way we look is a minor issue in the grander scheme of things.
I do think as well, that “seeker-sensitive” has to be more about living a life and having a lifestyle that draws man to God. Whether the lighting is “soft and inviting” or “harsh and revealing” has little to do with who we represent in day to day life.
I love the discussion, and it reveals muxh about our hearts. Thanks for all you are saying and “representing!”
10. Ian Barker | January 9th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
When I walked into the prayer room on Jan 1st, I was very jolted. But as I was thinking about it, I realized how accurate Mike’s word about control a month or so ago really was. I began to see that I lean on familiarity too much and it brought me back to a hunger for a true life of prayer before God.
God loves color and light. What do you think heaven is about?
11. Stephanie | January 9th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
preponderance was just my favorite from class . . . but if you could incorporate it into everyday conversation I would be entertained
12. gc | January 9th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
I think IHOP would do itself well to become more seeker sensitive and bring in more outsiders, so I welcome the changes to prayer room. Frankly, the bright fluorscent lights of old gave me a headache and sometimes made me feel like I was stuck in a large warehouse. The modernization of the stage itself is only apropriate given IHOP’s continued growth and its desire to expand globally. Now all we need is a crucifix and a few windows, and I would just about be ready to move in.
13. Esther | January 9th, 2007 at 10:07 pm
Hi Dave,
just wanted to say that I listen to the webcasts from New Zealand, but never the video b/c it takes too much bandwidth. I didn’t even know the stage had changed until I read it on Randy’s blog. Then I had to go have a look. Then I went back to the audio b/c it didn’t make any difference to the PR in my opinion. Maybe I’ll feel different when I come visit next, but I find that the PR changes everytime I come to visit. I’ve watched you kids grow up and get married and have babies for almost 7 years. So something visually is always new at the PR for me. But the heart of the PR has only grown in depth and I love to join in with your prayers and grow in the knowledge of God.
14. David | January 9th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
I love your perspective, Esther (and Greg’s as well). Thinking about you watching all of us grow up and raise our families together over the past seven years touches my heart. Thanks for the encourgement.
David
15. Alex | January 10th, 2007 at 2:59 am
You have a wonderful family, Dave. Bless you.
Alex
16. Kyle | January 10th, 2007 at 3:54 am
I like that you can see people’s faces - it really helps me engage to be able to really enjoy others as they worship, pray and enjoy God.
17. ron downing | January 10th, 2007 at 5:48 am
in response to ian’s post…
mike’s word about the control spirit has been the true ‘now’ word of the lord for our family in this (i hate to say it) season…
the power of that truth truly penetrates so many of our different circumstances and situations right now with all the changes which have happened, and are to happen.
i keep finding myself being reminded again and again that it is about the lord’s work ultimately, and not about my own personal preferences and ministry (thought i absolutely love the changes!)
i think the more we hold everything in our ‘ministry’ before the lord with an open hand (function, people, even platform, etc.) the more we are able to bless and champion the changes as the surround us. the lord is truly taking us on a journey to join our hearts to his purposes.
ron
18. David | January 10th, 2007 at 7:55 am
Ron - great thoughts. Absolutely right on. Where we have to be so careful is in the area of religious opinion. I find that many who have strong opinions have no ability to bolster those opinions with scriptural backing or foundation. We must be scriptural first, and then let our opinions and sensibilities flow from out of that place.
Speaking of which, you must check out Ron & Ian’s blogs. They are doing some good stuff right now. I added them on the side (you know where) for any that are interested.
I would put in a plug for Kyle, but he has to actually write something first.
David
19. ChriS Ferguson | January 10th, 2007 at 11:02 am
People Hate Change…the fact that it was overnight and we didn’t get to vote helped eliminate hurt feelings and a IHOP/split. Is it seeker sensitive?…well I am trying to seek HIM more daily and the low lighting and the new lay out of musicans and singers does make it much easier to engage in the prayer room. My only complaint is we lost several tables and the dancers.
Friends of mine just got back from a visit to Zhop and they loved the “simplicity of a small blooming prayer room.” As things grow they get more involved that is how its supposed to be.
Dave…I can’t believe you break the blogging rules with a 1,074 word post and still so many read and comment.
20. David | January 10th, 2007 at 11:09 am
Chris -
Tell me about it. I’m a bit shocked myself, as I’ve had a few tell me at the beginning that no one would read my stuff because it was way too long.
I’m kind of stubborn that way.
The tables are coming back. In fact, we’ll end up with more than we started with. And we’re working on the dancer dilemma. We’ll be solving that soon, I think.
David
21. Mrs. I. | January 11th, 2007 at 7:19 am
As the mother of a dancer, we thank you!
22. David | January 11th, 2007 at 8:29 am
As a friend of many cool dancers, I understand!
23. Musings » prayer ro&hellip | January 11th, 2007 at 10:10 am
[…] I have no articulate things to say today, but Dave Sliker does. Here’s his post. […]
24. Charity Bates | January 12th, 2007 at 6:10 am
Even though you already have the input of half of IHOP about the big changes in the prayer room, I feel compelled to share as well. During the Onething conference, I was able to meet the ‘Seeker-Sensitive Willow Creek Lighting Guy’ who has caused such a ruckus. During our conversation I asked him, “What is your vision for the lights in the PR?” Honestly, his response surprised me. Without missing a beat he said, “Revelation 4.” He then explained to me that the scene around the throne shows us that human beings were meant to be visually fascinated by beauty and that the changes in the Prayer Room are not only meant to ‘make things look nice,’ but they are meant to be an escort into the very presence of God. At IHOP we spend a lot of time talking about the Hymns of Revelation, but honestly, there is a lot more going on there than just songs. I am excited about the changes in the prayer room. I know that right now it is ‘little, rough, and ugly’ but in time, with a good dose of wisdom and revelation, something stunning could emerge.
25. Mrs. I. | January 12th, 2007 at 7:24 am
Charity, thanks for sharing that - more to ponder!
26. David | January 12th, 2007 at 7:52 am
Ladies and Gentleman, please give a HUGE round of applause to one of our new lighting folks here at IHOP-KC, Charity Bates! I loved the look in her eyes when I told her about the changes that were coming - particularly with the lighting.
The idea that light can enhance worship (and does in Rev. 4) is something she has carried in her heart for quite some time (and, she has been a secret expert in this area - go figure!). I am so excited to see her jump in and help give leadership to this.
She did not put the link to her blog, but you should check her out - she is smart and fun, and anything she is thinking is worth reading. I love people like that!
http://beholdandbless.blogspot.com/
David
27. David | January 12th, 2007 at 9:17 am
Great comment by Luis Cataldo, who loves this kind of stuff:
“This is so fun. I’m like, drunk on fun.”
DS
28. baci~ | January 14th, 2007 at 9:16 am
Hi, The ” revulsion at best and abject horror at worst” feelings/thoughts expressed by some saints within the present-day renewal concerning the possibility of the KCIHOP embrassing the seeker-sensitive church model has little to do with these “limping and pridefull” people
rejecting the seekers themselves. It does concern the
very real issue of many seeker-sensitive model adherents/leaders being embarrased by the manifestations/gifts of Holy Spirit because they sincerly believe that seekers would reject the gospel of Jesus Christ if they saw/experienced something weird”. That is a problem, and a very real one, the fact is that Christianity is a super-natural experience, that “normal” day-to-day living life with Jesus Christ is frankly “weird” and should be. He is a super-natural God and we are super-natural people, our heritage is one of continual subjective experiences between the Divine and humans,
that have proven themselves true (the Scriptures) and a history of one sign and wonder after another until time ends and eternity “begins” for us as individuals and as as Father’s family at a wedding feast. This is one of the goliaths in the present-day Move. Will we be embarrassed before men or God? The “pride” of being in a new place, seeing/experiencing God in a new way, really loving Him, did not happen because we went looking for Him in the (for lack of a better word) old order, but because He apprehended us, and for many folks I have met yanked them out (painfully at times) of what was buildt by human hands (well-intentioned) hands at best, but human hands not His. Peace.
29. David | January 14th, 2007 at 9:37 am
I agree - no one wants to reject actual “seekers”. But as one who understands IHOP a bit, I would say that few really think about them either, when it comes to changes that can function to build effective bridges for these seekers. Mostly we tend to think about how changes affect us personally.
But that’s normal human nature, which I talked about in the article.
Beyond that is a distaste for the excesses of seeker-sensitive models, which I think is a good thing - a necessary thing.
We don’t want to do the converse of what I talked about - swing so radically the other way to embrace the seeker-sensitive model that we turn a blind eye to its errors. We need to walk in the tension of both being true to who we are called to be by God (in the full expression - we’re not there yet) while building strategic and meaningful bridges for people to be able to encounter Jesus along the way.
It is difficult for an unbeliever or new believer to connect with who we are and what we are doing at times. This is not because Jesus is embarassing, but because we are needing to grow in the excellence in which we shepherd people to the place of encounter. There are true cultural hinderances and obstacles within our little family that need to be addressed and improved so that we serve the people in a more excellent way.
This does not mean “water down” or “shy away from” the gifts and expressions of the Spirit. It does mean that we are helpful in setting the right context for people to stay around long enough to understand and then participate in life in the Spirit. This is called, in our day, “sensitivity”. I call it “caring”.
David
30. baci~ | January 14th, 2007 at 10:13 am
David. Thank you much for your response, tension is the best place to be (it keeps one humble and literally drives us back to the Throne to get the latest from the Greatest, as everything around Him changes but He does not). Of late I have been asking God for Him to give new language concerning what you all are about to launch in KC, language that will convey that caring you speak of. Language that will bring real revelation in regards to the “lost soon to be found”. Language that God will use to instruct the found about those they do not know as yet and how very important these people are to Him. Language that will break through as “water breaks through rock” to accomplish what He would have to save those who do not know/gnosco Him as yet. He has not given me an answear as of yet so I persisit. I do know this, you (KCIHOP) are a blessing to the world, this epicenter of God, this wellspring in a dry and thirsty land is changing the face of the church and therefore etenity. Let the River flow.
31. David | January 14th, 2007 at 10:26 am
baci~ -
Great thoughts. I appreciate that we have such a tender comrade in our labors from afar. Your prayers are greatly valued. Your persistence is greatly valued, as well. We will lay hold of this together - I am excited about what the next season holds for us.
- ds
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